When I interviewed you for Hotel in Rotterdam in 2001, I think it was one of the best interviews I’ve ever done. I pre sold it to a Swedish culture magazine, but when I was done they told me they didn?t want it anymore. They had heard that Hotel was too pretentious and ‘arty/farty’. Do you feel pretentious and arty farty?
Not at all. But I do think that cinema is polarized between the art/fart and banal-mainstream and that makes it difficult to find a comfortable home for myse
How would you define yourself as a filmmaker?
Someone who likes what film can do but on the other hand not so in love with cinema as a thing in itself. It is a means to an end, something very flexible (now more than ever) and very much the art form of our time. So I am very open to all kinds of films and ideas of film and dialogue about film
Where do you think your fascination for sexuality and technology comes from?
Well they are two very different things and cannot be lumped together like this. Sexuality is obvious, isn’t everybody fascinated by it, if not, why not? They should be! It is the root of everything and our connection with all things and usually the source of all problems etc etc.Technology, on the other hand is merely a means to an end. I have a tendency to be sentimental about it but I also try and resist this idea and remain open to all new ideas that facilitate communication.
When I talked to you then you said that in your next film you would like to be experimental, play with new technology and technical aspects whithin the form of a mainstream thriller. Did Cold Creek Manor turn out the way you first thought?
Did it turn out the way you wanted – or did you have to compromise?
COLD CREEK – I did it to see what I would think of doing studio work, if anything had, or could change based on all the new ideas I’d been working around. In truth it was no different than before and the slowness of the process was very frustrating. Trying to preserve energy and enthusiasm over this ling a time was hard. However I did get well paid and this liberated me for the past 2 years during which time I have done smaller projects with lots of experimenting
For some reason I had expected a lot of play with night/vision cameras in Cold Creek manor?
Are night/vision cameras something you still want to experiment with?
I did shoot an extended sequence with Night/Vision – the snakes POV of the house at night – but it never even made it into the 1st cut. Since that time I have shot a lot with the Night Vision – and erotic film (as yet unseen by anyone except me and the woman in it), an installation with designer Ron Arad. I have been trying out different ways of lighting in the dark, also working with actors in the dark which is very interesting for them
Is it important to you to experiment with new technology?
Only in as much as it makes the process more accessible
What is the next big thing in film making technology do you think?
A complete re-think about production and distribution structures. Crews will shrink and films become much more personal. The equipment is designed for individual use, no longer needs team technical support
What do you think makes people so nervous about new technology?
The world that they know is vanishing. Jobs will vanish, money, security etc. The world of film was very attractive for the kind of technicians who were indispensible – well paid and highly complex. This is no longer th4e case – although the industry will hang onto this for as long as possibel.
What do you see happening in the future on the distrubution side of movies?
This is the biggest challenge – it needs individuals to organize the alternative ideas, trouble is, no-one really is burning to go into distribution for new film, everyone want to be a director or an actor or a producer.
Do you still think that technology that makes it cheaper to do films is entirely not in the interest of Hollywood?
How do you feel about the new HDV formats?
Overly complex still and changing so fast that there is little point in getting married to any of the systems until they settle down and become consistant for a longer period. Until then I am happy with DVCAM or Super 16
Do you still think that DV cameras are more poetic than 35 mm?
Yes, because poetry comes from one person with a pen or a pencil. The poet is independent and this is important
You’re an actor’s director – what does that term mean to you?
Simply this – I know what it takes to act, I was an actor for 15 years, the process is not easy and the actors are fragile, but they also like to be directed with a firm hand. I also enjoy my time with the actors more than anything else and they know this. I am the friend of the actor.
Do you like to improvise, or do you prefer to rehearse? Or just talk about the scenes and the characters?
Talk talk talk. It is very important to do this. A bit of technical rehearsal with thhe camera so that both sides know what the frame is and how the light is working. Within this ‘understanding’ it is possible to improvise on the structure. But without some structure, what are you improvisng on?
How do you think it affects us that everything has become so sexualized? AND – How do you think we are affected by porn?
This is a huge subject – briefly – porn has infiltrated the mainstream and the effect is bad. The irony is that it has de-sexualized everything into a series of limited cliches based on a crude theatrical interpretation of the female orgasm. It takes us further and further away from sexuality and any attempt to understand it. Interestingly LOSS OF SEXUAL INNOCENCE (another Arty-Farty film) was about this idea
Sexiest movie scene ever?
Not sure – but it would have to be verbal rather than graphic and porno (PERSONA)
Is it important to you to be independent?
In 2001 you said that film was the most oversubscribed whore in the art world. Do you still feel the same way?
Why? Or has it changed since then?
Well the use of ‘whore’ is interesting. A whore is not really welcomed into mainstream society and film, proper film as opposed to art fart film (installation etc) is not recognized in the world of art, it just doesn’t fit because it cannot be isolated into an iconic image. So in that sense I still feel the same. Having spent time delving into the art world I see they are all whores, the dealers and the gallery owners – the money changers in the temple.
You did all the interviews for Projections 10 – what about other film makers and/or actors interests you the most?
What other film makers and actors do you find most interesting right now?
I’m not particularly blown away by what I see – but I don’t see that much – I prefer to work in isolation
What would you like to read more about when it comes to film journalism?
Less of what the journalist thinks – more of what the film makers and the actors think – I’d like to see them pushed intelligently
Is it important to you to be able to take risks within your projects?
Yes
Why do you make movies?
It is the correct medium for now
Is it possible to film the Truth? And is it something you’d like to do?
The truth shifts all the time. It is possible to film ‘a’ truth, a small truth, a poetic truth, the rest is negotiable
Do you believe in love?
Of course….it is the centre of my universe
Do you believe in humanity?
Absolutely, no point otherwise
If you could ask porn star Jenna Jameson any question you?d like – what would you ask her?
Don’t know her or her work. Is she interesting in a special way?
What is your favourite film, and why?
Don’t really have one – it changes all the time -
Who is your favourite director, and why?
Well…Godard is probably the most interesting of them all because he is complex and is not limited by being a film director – he continues to be interested in a)ideas b) women c)politics-socialogy d)music e)technology as a tool
When I interviewed you in Rotterdam you said that the intimacy new technology brings with it had made it easier for you to come to terms with the perversity of some situations of film making. Do you still feel that way?
More than ever
What do you think of Lars von Trier?
Interesting and moments of beauty and intensity. I wasn’t impressed with Dogville and felt it very self-conscious. It reminded me of experimental work I’d seen in NY in the 70′s (which I liked a lot, particularly the Wooster Group) – But he is an important film-maker.
Catherine Breillat
I haven’t enjoyed her films, for me they do not flow and seem simplistic – but there are moments that I love and ultimately I think I admire the journey she is on, after all there are few fellow travellers
Hi Mike, thanks for your interesting answers! Here are a few follow up questions that I’m hoping you want to answer too. Again, answer the ones you like, and skip the rest. Take care, and many thanks for wanting to take part of the book! Best, Emma —————–
The fact that sexuality is such a complex thing and affects so many other things – how do you feel about the fact that so much mainsteam porn is merely about penetration?
It’s odd, isn’t it. I’ve given it some thought over the years. It’s also odd that it often involves several men. Also the idea of gang bangs. I find other men’s dicks an embarrassment but it seems that guys get off on other men’s dicks and when watching porn they need to see ‘em. I suppose there are control issues as well and penetration seems to be a man in control and the woman in her place
How do you feel about the way mainstream porn is made? Could it be better? If you did porn – what would it be like?
I think that for the most part it’s a big joke and I’m surprised that it continues to be interesting. From what I read it seems to be getting more violent and abusive towards the women. Which is a sick logical route given the limited scope it has in the 1st place. The problem with it all is that it is left to pornographers to churn out the product. Porn limits the scope of sexuality to start off with – and then the only men who deal with it are the weird group who seem to control the industry. Of course it could be better, much better. But silly to even use what is there as some kind of measure, some kind of standard. You would need to start from the beginning again because the porn industry is a joke, full of bad theatricality and fake emotion. the sex is real but the emotion is fake. Perhaps in good porn the emotion should be believable and the sex could be fake. Filming the sex act itself is extremely limited as an erotic image source. It looks quite stupid a lot of the time and by definition is a series of repetitive movements. I would concentrate on erotic text and the witholding of the naked body other than in heightened moments. It would have to be about some kind of denial of what we think we want. It always strikes me as bizarre the way in porn everyone gets out of their clothes as quickly as possible. I’ve heard the argument that porn needs more story – I’m not sure if this is true but it definitely needs more situation plot and more tension. After all it is supposed to be about what is forbidden and ‘naughty’ . There was a survey done recently about the differences between men and women when they had orgasm – it seemed that the biggest difference was that when women came they lost all connection with the day to day world and were entirely in their sexual moment. This seems to ring true and maybe is the root of the fascination with female sexuality, the idea that she becomes another person when she comes – I think it would be interesting to stay with this idea
What do you think has to be done to reclaim sexuality and sex from porn? Can it be done at all? You wrote that you?ve been shooting an erotic film with night vision cameras.Tell me more about it, it sounds really interesting! With what ideas did you go into that project. Why night vision cameras? What happens when you shoot in darkness? What happens with the actors? What happens with the relationship to you as a director, and to the actors? Relationship to the camera? And yours to them, and to the camera?
The film I made….had one actress and the crew was just me. We shot over a period of one week, starting at about midnight each night, shooting in the dark. It consists of a series of dialogues between her and me. Sometimes she is aroused by the conversation. What I wanted was to try and create this state of arousal…but never to consumate it. It was a unique experience for both of us, very intense. The big challenge for me was to always remember all of the technical things that are needed, even with DVCAM, equipment has to be absolutely ready before the lights go off etc. The thing about darkness is that once the eyes have been taken out of the equation the other senses increase, so sound becomes very important. I can see an image on the screen but then I cannot see the actress herself, just an image of her – so it is very techno-theatrical, if you see what I mean. You can say things in the dark that you probably would not say with the lights on. It made it clear to me the power of the spoken word – both as an erotic force and as a dramatic force
As a filmmaker and a cinematographer – do you think you shoot the bodies of men and women differently?
Yes, very differently. I am not particularly interested in the bodies of men and therefore I don’t get particularly enthusiastic about filming them. What is more interesting about men is the intention of their physicality, their ‘manliness’, so it’s more of an attitude thing. With women this is also true – but it is also possible to find aesthetic beauty in the body of a woman for its own value. But that is my opinion and it is different for others.
Can you see a difference in other people’s movies?
Sure. Everyone has their own style. What I do notice in both film and theatre is how very few productions seem to be directed at all. There is a concentration on the technical aspects but for the most part the actors seem to be abandoned to their own devices. Occasionally I see something (my Summer of Love) that impresses me and turns me on but not very often. I usually watch older stuff which seems more cutting edge.
Doing bigger, mainstream stuff within the studios to be able to finance your more experimental, smaller films how does it feel?
Do you feel like you’re whoring while you’re doing them?
No, not at all. I always try and make it work within its own restraints. I feel bored sometimes because it is so slow. I feel frustrated sometimes by the limitations placed on a studio film in terms of their perception of the audiences perception
Actors are often people who want to please, do you notice any difference between actors and actresses in that area during filming? If so, is it a problem? And how do you work around it? (I’m not asking anything dirty here) just wondering if you’ve noticed if women and men are taught to please in a special or different way, and if it affects the film making progress.
Mickey Rourke once said that the problem (for him) with acting was that it was woman’s work. In a way I see he is right. I see a lot of male actors uncomfortable in their craft because they somehow feel un-manly in what they are doing. Certain actors constantly behave badly, get drunk, beat up folk – all in an effort to prove that – after all – they are a man, not just an actor (naming no names of course). Actresses relate to male directors in a certain way. I would say that on the whole, I find it much easier to direct women than men, particularly when it comes to anything sexual or physical. Men relate well to fighting and heroism. These are sweeping generalisations, of course, but often the case
You wrote that your next project would be one where you’d be the entire crew, and the actors would all talk about stuff?
What would they talk about?
STUFF!! I’M NOT ABOUT TO DIVULGE THE NEXT BREAKTHROUGH IN CINEMA X MIKE
Porn star Nina Hartley has said …feminism has given men a suspicion of their own sexuality and hatred of their sexuality and hatred of their own erection. I find a lot of men who are absolutely ashamed of their own desire? She is of course generalizing, and is a feminist herself – but what do you think about her theory?
Mmm – tricky stuff. POssibly the two polarities of porn and feminism have created an environment in which men cannot be men, cannot be a masculine sexual animal. But it’s too complex a subject to deal with so quickly
Lukas Moodysson told me that he would have made ‘A Hole in my Heart’ more naked, more aggressive, had he not been a man. He was afraid he’d fall into the trap of being just ‘a guy looking at a girl’.
How do you avoid that trap? Is it necessarily a trap? How should a man look at a woman in the ‘right? Way’
How should a woman take pleasure in being looked at, without it being a ‘wrong? Way’ Is there a right and wrong?
Again, this is tricky and difficult to answer quickly. I believe women like men to be masculine and strong in their sexuality. A man has to be clear in the way he looks at a woman, it’s a very difficult thing to do well. Especially on a film set where there are so many other people, (probably men also). There is something about numbers here. One man can look at one woman and their gaze is equal, they can choose to look in the eye or not. Two men looking at one woman is a different thing. One on one requires courage and conviction. The man has to stand up and be counted as a man. So has the woman. Once the men form a gang, an audience then the woman is an object and she can play up to this as a performer using sexy tricks etc – it’s all downhill after that.
Rodrigo Garcia (Things you could tell just by looking at her) on the same topic told me that he makes sure he leaves his erection at the door when he shoots his movies. Is that something you think about?
I wonder if he is being entirely truthful. I would say you transfer the erection to the brain, to the aesthetic centre
Is to objectify to wish harm?
Sometimes – it goes back to what I said earlier – do the men add up to a gang? Did you ask permission to objectify? Is it a mutual decision?
How do you think the sexualization of society affects our fantasies of looking and being looked at?
For the most part it cheapens and narrows the possibilities – it seems to all have become very obvious and crude, like a bad B movie with bad B movie actors
Have you seen ‘9 songs’ by Michael Winterbottom? What did you think of it?
Yes, I saw it. I think it was a good idea but it reveals the usual problems in all films – story has to be interesting, acting has to be good (convincing, that is) and the director has to direct, even fucking needs to be directed by someone keeping an eye on the overall scheme. It was nicely shot, though. I never believed they were fucking, even though they were. I admire the initiative to do the film, I really do. But I’m not so sure that it worked. The sex scenes felt so fake – even though they obviously were ‘real’. The actress had adopted a few too many porn sounds and porn moves. Actually, I think that that is porn’s biggest threat to sex and sexuality – that we are all hamming it for a camera that is not even there when we’re having sex. Instead of feeling.
Yes, I agree with all that and we talked about it last email I think
Kathryn Bigelow has said that she would never cast anyone who isn’t sexy. What’s your take on that?
I think what she means is this – You need to have a physical response to the actors, they need to possess some kind of energy, which you could say was also their sexual energy in order for it to have some kind of chance of working on the screen – I agree with her
What does real sex look like compared to the version we get fed by most films, porn and magazines?
I guess it looks unique every time – the sense that it is private and entirely personal and that you are seeing something special that you could only see in this time. Therefore the perverse element that turns us on is the sense that we should not be there watching because it is so private.
What do you think is harder for an actor/actress – undressing, or being naked?
It entirely depends what they think about their own bodies. Some know they look pretty good and are very happy to be seen naked or undressing – others are insecure and need to be protected and nourished carefully – you need to prove to them that they will look beautiful and you will not expose them badly.
You wrote: “I’ve heard the argument that porn needs more story – I’m not sure if this is true but it definitely needs more situation plot and more tension. After all it is supposed to be about what is forbidden and ‘naughty’”.
Considering that, what do you think happens with porn when it has become so mainstream?
Not sure I know enough about porn to answer that
How do you think the placement of the camera affects how turned on you get from a sex scene?
It’s not so much about the placement itself – more about the intention of the camera and the way in which the camera moves. The witholding of information is obviously far more effective than the opposite because ultimately the film, the image cannot deliver sex, it can only show you a picture of sex and the sound of sex and therefore it needs to hold back, to frustrate the viewer because this is the real power that it has.
And last question: Would you answer my questions differently if I were a man?
If you were a man your questions would be different. It seemed to me that the directness of the questions came from a specific female POV and I decided to be honest in the answers because the subject is important to me. It was a good dialogue (I hope) between a woman and a man.
Best/mike